Episode #
006

Connecting and Communicating in a Cross-Cultural World with Tayo Rockson

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Episode Summary

What is it like growing up in 4 continents and 5 countries? Tayo Rockson, a Nigerian and a son of a diplomat, found himself in-between cultures and had to find different ways to fit in. Now, Tayo is a book author and former writer for publications like Forbes and Huffington Post, from sharing stories on stages at TEDx Talks or events held by the United Nations. He facilitates virtual talks and workshops as a consultant, strategist, and professor. His life experiences motivated him to be the cultural translator, storyteller, and activist he is today.
Tayo Rockson joins Andrew Jernigan and Allen Koski (The A Squad as Tayo phrased it)  in this episode of The New Nomad. They delved on why diversity is a good thing and how it encourages the search for novel information and perspectives. They discussed the concept of Tayo’s book Use Your Difference To Make A Difference. This episode also describes how biases can be a positive thing by creating a quick recollection and model of choice to respond to different circumstances. Three new nomads, one goal: to find commonalities in cultural diversity and make the best out of them.

From the episode

What You'll Learn

Timestamps

[4:34] Caring encounters versus judgement encounters

[7:36] Learning culture through taxi drivers, barbers, and people living it

[13:95] Searching for commonalities in a world of differences

[21:08] Asking open ended questions and active listening

[25:16] Bias is NOT always bad

[29:03] Change starts with self-awareness

Show Transcript

Allen

Welcome to The New Nomad. We have a great guest today Tayo Rockson will join us and discusses how you can use your difference to make a difference in many other topics. I'm sure this is gonna be very engaging today. As we talk diversity, inclusion, social justice, cross-cultural competency, the sky's the limit. But before we get to that, I'd like to introduce my co-host, Andrew Jernigan. And check in with what Andrew has on his mind today.

Andrew  

Well, Hi there everyone. So glad you're with us. It is a another fabulous day, night. Morning, wherever in the world you're tuning in. So welcome. I'll keep it in English. I was about to switch and do some greetings but Maakye! for all those who are tuning in from Ghana. It is where are you today? I'd love it if you're watching and can comments. Tell us where you're tuning in from, you know, it's we are so much deeper than the cover of this book of life that we are that we hold. And you know, Allen, we're were chatting earlier about travel, things that things that you do, and the way of life when you pass in and out of cultures and as an expat as a traveller as a global citizen. This new this new Nomad, what are your What are your some of your thoughts on that is, as you were sharing earlier, share with me?

Allen  

Well, it was interesting as I listened to Tayo's YouTube, which was I thought was really interesting getting out into the culture. And one of the things that came to mind that I tried to do is get a haircut at a local barber shop in a unique location. So I've had haircuts in Kiev, Ukraine. I've had haircuts in Kosovo. I in Amman, Jordan. And it's amazing, even if you don't speak the same language, and you have to pantomime how you'd like your haircut. The goodwill and I'll just share with one thing to you is when I was in Amman, Jordan, you know, you have people that are very concerned about leaving the bubble. And I'm a lot less concerned about that I tend to be adventurous. And I went and got a haircut in Amman where it was just myself, the barber, his straight edge razor, and some Turkish coffee and and I was blocks and blocks away from my hotel. And when I came back, the group I was with, were amazed and horrified. At the same time the amazement was how good the haircut was. The horror was that it was a straight edge razor. I was buying myself blocks and blocks away. And I really, but but then they said could you take us to this barber. And we took them to the barber. And he grabbed his friends. And even though we couldn't speak a lick of their language, or they couldn't speak a lick of our language, went to the back and got the room of American, a book of American movie stars, john and it was really old book, John Wayne, Burt Lancaster and put it at it. And it was just one of those special moments. And I was thinking about Tayo will share with us today. I just treasure that moment. And I'm hoping the folks listening to this this podcast have that same spirit. How about you, Andrew?

Andrew  

Yeah, it's you know, we're, we each have at least most of us two ears, two eyes, eyebrows, those similar things, if we could just view it as that we can just view it so simply, whatever culture we're in at the moment, whether it looked like we're on our own hometown, and we have other people passing through or living there or whether we're in a different country. We've got to care about the person in front of us to truly care about that person. Whether we're just passing on the sidewalk, sitting across from them in a restaurant, pumping gas in our car, and they're at the island next to us. They may look different, they may not look different, but they may be truly different even though they don't look different. Because we can't judge anyone from how they look or how they speak.

We've got to turn this these cultural interactions into caring encounters versus judgement encounters. And I know that Tayo has has been one that has been moving from country to country since birth almost. I hope that today on his episode, that he will share more of his life story and some of those things. But I've listened to him. I first met him in Washington DC, we both were getting a Pollock Scholar Award with the families in global transition. And you know, as soon after his book came out a couple of years later, it was one of those things. It's like, okay, I was overseas, but I ordered it. And then I came to back to the country where it was waiting on me and got it. And it's, I'm so happy that he's coming into this episode today, because he can speak with so much more authority on the things that you and I are bantering about right here, because he's been immersed in this, and then is a consultant to major corporations, school organisations around the world. So as much as yes, I've led the slow mad nomad expat lifestyle, but he's been immersed in it for 30 years. And so I'm glad you've lined him up as a guest today, Alan.

Allen 

let's bring Tayo into the conversation. And welcome to The New Nomad. And we'd love to have you share your story with us, or maybe some initial comments off of our initial conversation.

Tayo

Well, thank you The A squad, Alan and Andrew, A squared.

Allen  

Oh, I like that. Good.

Tayo  

It's a pleasure, real pleasure. And yes, I remember meeting Andrew in DC. And it was it was roughly around the time that I was contemplating launching my firm and company at the time, I had just moved to New York City in that year. And I launched the company in 2014. So I was just new into this, I just come up with the term use a difference and make a difference. I believe my speeches actually use a difference to make a difference. But it was a slightly different version of what, what it would become. So if anyone in the speech is still on YouTube, the sound is so bad, though. But it's there. It's my YouTube. But if you can see an evolution of that it's one of my favourite things. Because I think a lot of people feel like they have to have everything down back. And then they don't allow for that evolution.

But you can clearly see as I was working my ideas into, you know, what I've become and I love a lot of weight where you were saying to Alan, because that idea of using a haircut is an interesting way to build cultural competence too. I like doing that with the taxi drivers.

Allen  

Gotcha.

Tayo  

Yeah, when I'm in you know, new environment, just having conversations with with it with the taxi drivers after the airport, because they, they can usually tell you, you know, what's going on in the state? A lot of times Well, it depends on what state you are that they tend to be immigrants or they've they've a good knowledge of some of those nooks and crannies and neighbourhoods. So it is one of my favourite things some people can say it's not the best thing to do but I think it's better than nothing just because if you can gain at least one insight into what a local thinks it's better than just you know, going there with a tourist mindset so but but um

Andrew  

yeah, where was your first taxi?

Tayo  

Oh, gosh. First one I remember was definitely Nigeria and any anyone driving in Nigeria, he but if you think I live in New York City, if you take traffic here something else, I want people to go to Lagos or Hanoi in Vietnam where used to live. It is something else. I've seen my dad reverse on the highway before. And it wasn't even considered abnormal. I didn't even think of it. I can't even imagine that happening there. But it is Herky jerky. Stop, stop.

But yeah, it was it wasn't that kind of environment that I that I got a taxi there. But the first one I truly remember just bantering with was when I first came to United States, because I I've always been a curious person. And I came I think we landed in O'Hare, Brian in Chicago, I think but then we may not wait to Jersey and then down to Virginia. But along the way you start hearing people you know people get curious about way from and then back and forth. And then you hear their stories and and then those that's what really planted idea in my head.

So you've moved networks in Nigeria, Sweden, Vietnam, Burkina Faso, I may have missed something there. And United States and the United States. And by the way, I probably the United States could be as interesting as any of them but in a different way. Share with us a little bit. I mean, how you put yourself out there I thought it was really interesting. You know, watching your YouTube and your conversation, the art of diplomacy, maybe share some of the ideas that you out there that will help people put themselves out there.

Allen  

So I've always believed in big picture and little picture, you know, understanding the macro and micro. So I believe in a world of nuance when governed by binary systems, which I think is important because I think we're more nuanced that we, you know, appears there, you need to understand the bigger and, and micro. But when I I've always loved sports, sports is actually my first love football, what I call football. I guess it's called soccer. But I'm here it's, that was my first first true love. And I, you know, I always use that to bond with my father. But it was also a good way for me to just understand different teams in the world and geography.

Tayo  

So when I moved to Burkina Faso, I was this skinny Nigerian kid with a thick Nigerian accent, a French speaking country and American and National School going through puberty. And I was 10. So I was very eager, like most people at that age to just find a way to fit in. And last thing I want to do is to fit out but everything like I was, was fitting out my suit, you know, me being black, me sounded different, you know, the food that I brought, you know, people would talk about my nose and my lips in my hair. I'm like, Yo, this. I've never been questioned this way before. And it's such a small school.

So I was like, Okay, let me go to what I know. I know. I know, sports. But everybody around here seems to play multiple sports in the sport at the time was basketball, which ironically, isn't isn't that is now my favourite sport. It's basketball, soccer, tennis. And I just saw people playing and I said, I have to learn this game. And so I went to the library of all places to figure this out. And I started studying on every single thing I could the fundamentals, the history, who are the greats how it came to be. So I figured out that there were two doctors, there was Dr. Naismith, and there was Dr. J. And then I checked that other magazines. And then I saw that, you know, we're the current players, I'll never see any, whoever rest in peace Kobe Bryant, all these people.

And then after that, I decided to apply it right. So it's not enough to just learn something, you have to figure out how to apply it. And so the best way for me to apply it was to approach someone that played the game. And the best player at the time was Michael Albright. And so, you know, I went to him and I said, I have all this knowledge, I have all these things, can you show me how to play the game, and then our one on ones became two, and twos and threes and threes and 445 players, but I thought it was a great metaphor for life, because it really got me down the path of applying that to everything that I do even with writing the book, or building the firm or consultant, I gather information first, from as many sources as I can, and then I test it out, you know, weather if it's with questions, or my podcast or interview or and then you know, I don't know, I'm not always successful in getting responses. But when I do, it's that and then, you know, I tried, you know, I might put out a course or my Hey, hosted event or put out a pitch or an RFP. And that's something I've taken with me throughout life.

Allen  

Well, it's an inclusive approach. I mean, what I what I love is, you seem to search for commonalities in a world of difference. And I really, that's something that I took away from your your conversation. So the maybe share a couple of those, because it really resonated with me.

Tayo  

When you grew up as a son of a diplomat, that is what you see your dad doing. Yeah. My, my dad's job is essentially to find the commonalities that existed with the differences. And, you know, me being the oldest of three, one of the things you do in Nigeria is your leadership position is thrust upon you by your family and extended family, whether you want it or not. As some of you you have drunk you, you've been to Ghana, Andrew, so you, there's a very collectivist culture, sometimes everybody your success is my success you can't shame us.

Allen  

And so I just Well, you know, I looked at my phone, and I studied him a lot. And I just used to see how we related to new environments. And he was, you know, flipping through newspapers, he was listening to every news source, you know, used to be frustrating for me at the time, I asked him a question, and you'd be giving me all the other pictures? And I'm like, Yeah, I just want to know the answer to this question. And then, um, but I figured it out, you know, he was he was he was trying to find the commonalities existed, and what's the differences?

Tayo  

Because that's how you figure out to establish core relationships with the country, Nigeria, and when we were posted, and it is one that I don't feel like we do today enough, because we live in a you know, it's like, even you know, we're using sports metaphors here, but there's a lot there's a huge culture of debate and hot takes, but sometimes it strips away that that humanization aspect or, or nuance that comes from that, you know, some someone can say something they know will get clicks or or spark a debate, but it doesn't allow people to flesh out why someone got the idea or even if That idea is problematic.

And so that practice of learning that at a young age, even though it's frustrating first, is something I've found to be very helpful as I work with companies or social justice issues, which is, you know, as we're recording this, we just had the trial of the, you know, Derek Chauvin, but then there's just, there's just more and more and more and more of these types of situations where you have to be able to have the conversation despite the difficulty, and then that prepped me for that.

Andrew  

Yeah, it's, it's, uh, it's interesting. As I, as I hear you, I hear you know, you moving from Nigeria to Burkina Faso, which is a drastic difference. Yeah. Culture. Yeah. Green difference of culture. But yet many people wouldn't think so. No, thinking, Okay, West Africa, West Africa, it's all the same, right? It's when it's, you know, within one, one, now known as country which, you know, those invisible borders drawn really don't make a country, right? You know, it's just one of those lines in the sand that someone put there. But yet within the same region of a continent, you end up with such different cultures, but yet, you know, the, the people are so different.

Tayo  

Yes.

Andrew  

And the look is different, the food is different, all these things are different. And as we've lived around the world, as a family, my wife and I, and three kids, my kids, you know, my daughter is, you know, wanting to share like mine used to be and, you know, just this athletic lacrosse player and looks quite Caucasian. But yet she gravitates toward Africans, Mexicans, anything different than a Caucasian, in the school cafeteria. Yeah, in the social scene, because she doesn't see herself the way that she looks on the outside. Because she's grown up around the world.

And it's that thing of when we view a, say, a white policeman, we may view them as how they look on the outside. But they you know, as some people may have been adopted and raised in another scenario, like the show, this is us, which is the NBC show these days, has brought that to light, the whole thing of being raised in a culture other than your own, whether adopted in or different things, it's, it's the thing of we so quickly judge from the outside. You know, like you're saying, people are talking about your lips, your your hair, your nose, etc. Yeah, there's differences. But even the things that look similar, that they that they're invisibly not judging of, Oh, your nose looks like mine, your lip looks like mine. They're not saying those things. But they're thinking them. They're thinking, you're just like me, when they're when no one is just like anybody, we're also different. And those differences are so crucial, aren't they?

Tayo  

They are, and I have a few things to say and that you brought up great points. Yeah, I mean, this is this is my favourite show that I watch right now. So I know the episode you're talking about. And in the book, I say, you know, it's educate, don't perpetuate, instead, communicate, that's the framework for using a difference maker.

Andrew  

I repeat that again, repeat it twice more,

Allen  

educate, don't perpetuate, instead communicate, educate them perpetuate is they communicate, but you brought up something that I bring up in the educate portion, which is that self awareness for the education of self and I say it's you need to know your biases, triggers and values. So you the reason why the examples you brought up, we all have biases, and I think biases come from story fear, avoid insecurity, right. Story story, you were told religion, book, you read history, something, whatever something is informed you there. Fear, maybe you've had repeated bad experiences with a particular group people is informed you avoidance, in the effort to avoid difficult or uncomfortable conversations, your brain feels it will whatever it has there, and security wait for you to feel better by yourself.

Tayo  

Now, the cop example, the flip side of that could be like, maybe a cop is in the neighbourhood, but like, it is heightened fear. And I got and then you're using this trick, which is part of what we're discussing right now, where people are saying, is there a culture of accountability? Or are we working on a train that is there, but do you Are you afraid to people you're supposed to predict? And then on the other side with your daughter, one of the things I love about what you said is it is what I always talk about with identity.

The irony of identity is that it's more invisible than visible yet people define you by the visible so it's like oh, you're black, or you're white. Oh yeah, this but many people might not know that I'm a huge Masonite fan or LeBron James fan or any of these things without knowing, or having conversation me, but that's a big part of my identity is invisible, right, but you wouldn't know what it Oh, anxiety, for example, I've had PTSD or any of these things, you wouldn't know that. And that I feel like is the is a problem when you there's I understand the shortcut. It makes sense, right? Yeah. But if you use that, to define the fullness of people, it becomes dangerous, because you could miss out on core, you know, factors of who that person is. And so that's why I like this work, even though it's frustrating.

You really hit upon something, though, that that I do you bring that out? How do you get to know deeper and some what you know what somebody stands for, and you talk in many of your your conversations on active listening, asking questions, etc. And that to me, you know, we need to draw some people out, don't we? And maybe some of your ideas on that, because you can't judge a book by a cover the cover, but maybe you should read the book, or ask the question what you want, please read the book. But the best way to do that is you need to ask open ended questions you want to be an active listener, asked open ended questions, let people ask leading questions. You know, when I first came in, people always say, Oh, yeah, you from you from Africa slept the lions, right? There's a country of what's the capital of Africa? Did you ever have gyms? Is it possible for you to actually stay safe? Right? All these things that only seemingly give you one option?

Allen  

Yes.

Tayo  

Where it could be flipped. If you say, Well, what was your experience like growing up, blah, blah, blah, and then you invite other people tell you how their world is. And then from that, you get the Pro, but people are sometimes eager, because they feel like they know more? And they'll say, Oh, yeah, your guy. So you must like sports right? Now. He works with me. I love sports. And I guess I fit that quote unquote, stereotype. But I imagine there are other guys that maybe doesn't work for and then you're like, Okay, I, I don't know what you know, no, is the answer. And the yes or no, at least is awkward.

Allen  

But don't you get the feeling that those leading questions are bringing their the questioners biases into the conversation. And I like what you're kind of saying is ask open ended questions, but kind of leave your biases out of it. Yeah, you don't? I mean, does that sound like kind of the answer?

Tayo  

Well, that's part of it. Because when you make policies about people, you don't know, you end up perpetuating this system with this, whatever this is the system that will validate people that already feel validated. And they might not even be aware, you know, because they've already grown up. And it's just that that's just identity, you know, you go here and go here, that's what's happening.

But if you don't make an effort to ask questions, and see what happened, you're not gonna be able to know how two different people see different things, or how the same set of rules affect different different sets of people. I think my mental health, for example, which is one of the things I am a big proponent of, and I'll use my culture, and I always tell my parents, I always say, tradition is great, but not all tradition needs to be preserved. Right. And one of the traditions that wasn't in this is that my parents noticed, but in Nigeria is a huge hypermasculinity. Sometimes were like, don't talk about your problems, or why are you going to a therapist? or Why are you doing all these things.

And if I didn't get exposed, or it's a different things, I would I was heading down the same path because I was suppressing a lot of all these things. And it wasn't until I had a near death experience in 2012, that I even started allowing myself to feel and understand what it's like to have lived in a dictatorship, what it was like to have been rejected all these times in jobs or dealt with microaggressions. Because I was working on an assumption that if I did that I was weak. And that's one of the first things I need to ask myself those questions. And other people need to ask those use other people's questions where you can come to the point of saying, ha, what's been out there doesn't work. And based on information I now have, I need to create something that allows for more identities and more visibility for that. But you can't do that if you don't ask questions or shae stores.

Andrew  

Question there then. It'll view of people who are going on an assignment with a company or they're taking on this lifestyle of being able to work from wherever they choose. Yes. And they're going to a culture other than their own. It may be in their own country even but they're living in a new region. How do you feel that they would overcome biases, discover their own biases, and adapt into this new culture as they change their work style, their work location? Is that you I've heard that you have a material that even that that leads into that. Yeah, I can work through but can you share a little insight because I know you have it. I've been listening to you and watching your stuff, so, and you're even an advisory board member with our company. Yeah, I want our team to go through this material that you've developed. So, so I'll leave it with that if you can drop some bombs of some guidance points here.

Tayo  

Yeah, well, so first of all, bias is not bias is not always bad. I want people to understand it's actually how our brains protect this. Some biases certainly lead to prejudice. That's a fact. But you know, how we know not to do to go to this dangerous or dangerous spot, or put our hand in the hot something, because it's going to affect us. And it's how it's been passed on through generations.

But worldview has an equation for me. And the equation is lived experiences plus exposure. So if you want to understand your biases, you need to measure each of these things. So what every time someone asked me, How did we get here? I can't believe that I was asked people, well, let's let's measure your lived experiences, others measure your exposure levels, then you get your worldview. And one of the best ways to measure your lived experiences? Do you sit down and ask yourself three questions? You know, so who used to be best friends? For example, closest friends, even now? Let me pull up best friends, I guess I don't know, let me grab my best friends. But closest friends is what I would say. And then, and then I would ask them to reflect on why how they met, what they bond over what they believe. And, you know, just a very extensive process. On who, what, when, why. Same thing when last places you lived in? Why did you move there? What about the characteristics were there, bla bla, bla.

And then for those that are relationships, or that I'm able to build relationships, same thing, last relationships. And the reason why I'm asking this is because we live in a more reactive world versus a reflective world. And a lot of times when people find the time to really reflect on these things for 20 minutes or plus, you find that maybe you're not in a alliance alliance with some of these people anymore, but because the there are some allegiances, you stayed with them, or any of that, or you're like, Whoa, I can't believe I've always stayed here. And it's reflective of all these things.

But that's just one step. After after working through your biases, and figuring out whether it comes from story, fear, avoidance, security, or combination of both, I was invite invite people to then reflect on the triggers. I don't think people understand that your body is also talking to you as much as any other senses, any other things outside. So for me, if I'm afraid, for example, you know, hearts beating the height senses, I'm always there. I'm excited. I'm like, ah, but what situation is bring out excitement, bring out joy, bring out fear you, right? And how does your body react to those situations, some people can say, you know, if they're being honest with themselves in between, say, you know, I've gotta be honest, when I'm in this neighbourhood, and I come across someone wearing this, and wearing that makes me that makes me that that's that data as information, who use it.

And then don't start judging yourself or anything. That's not the point venue is just for you to judge it is just for you to assess yourself, and then come up with your five core values. Many people are so convinced that they're good people and other people, bad people, or vice versa. But you don't know who you are. If you can't tell me why you believe what you believe and what you what your core values are. And I've done this exercise multiple times that I have people tell them, I have people telling me, Hey, tell me if I've forgotten, they can't tell me for three, maybe someone knows some know two, some know one. But if you don't know what is defining you, on what you truly believe, how are you going to be able to intentionally act that way, if you don't intentionally Act, the way you say your highest self is your left to whatever has defined you subconsciously. And if what is defining subconsciously is something you haven't reflected on, you're potentially part of a problem. And so Ellen, Ellen may improve your awareness to such a point because this is the other equation, awareness, plus action equals change. Once you have that awareness, then you have the action points, then you can make changes. But it all starts with that level of self awareness, dedication. So

I love that, Oh, well, awareness, obviously, is key. And that, you know, people use a lot of cognitive dissidence, to think that they've got great awareness. To that end, we always ask our guests and I think you're gonna give us a really unique answer to one of our favourite questions is, you know, what is one overlooked person, place or experience you would suggest that our listeners discover, and certainly I'm thinking about this, and these are always the type of question that expands your level of awareness. But I'd love your thoughts on that.

Yes, so I live in New York City and I had never heard of this space until last week. So this is perfect. And it is called Roosevelt Island. And yeah, it exists. When you say, you know, yeah,

I lived in Sunnyside, Queens. So Roosevelt Island. unique place. I love it. Good call.

Allen  

So it's like it's on the East River between Manhattan and Queens, but it's part of Manhattan proper, I guess. And so, ah, yeah, I'm in the process of moving or dude, all these apartments are looking at different different apartments in different places and kinda sounds like it just randomly showed up. But the reason I loved it is I love paradoxes. But it's the fact that within the city, there's some serenity is allowed is that there's some serenity, and it's zone stretch, a violent it's almost like a piece of Europe within New York City. I don't know, you know, yeah, yeah. And I think for people to come to New York City, if you want to get the full experience in New York City, you know, obviously, you come multiple times, but try going to the touristy things, and then also checking this place out, I think you're going to start to see how, you know, beautiful a place can be, even though it's not what you expect it to be. So I just love when people come across paradoxes.

Tayo  

Oh, come on. That's a that's an awesome one. And as like I said, it's somebody lived in Sunny Side. And I, that's the one that you take that tram across to ram with a very interesting and a little bit different for folks to so. And by the way, maybe to our audience to all of us who have lived in New York City, expect New York City to bounce back after this. And I'm sure we could have done a podcast ourselves just on how that has changed too.

Yes. Yes. I'm with you. Do I expect you to bounce back? I know that death has been proclaimed. But I feel like it's not gonna happen. Yeah, it's just gonna be a new normal, but we'll be we'll be fine.

Andrew  

We will we will I look forward to, to meeting up with you in New York City in the near future. It's I've been there a couple of times. It's like if we could just if we could, but it's a strange place. Tell us though. I believe that you speak quite a bit. You're a professor in university professor, you've got the book, you've got a podcast with over 500 episodes. Where can people learn about you? Where can they hear your TEDx, your TED Talks, etc. Well, how can they book you? And how can they learn about your curriculum? I'll stop asking questions in the show notes as well, but go go for it. Tell us

Allen  

so the good thing is I have a digital home is my website tayorockson.com you can see my my book, my podcast, and that's New York City in the background. But my book my podcast in my I have a membership platform for people that are interested in diversity, equity, inclusion, anti racism, efforts, and it's called UID collective. The book is called Use Your Difference To Make A Difference is everywhere books are sold. But if you type tayorockson.com as links to everything. If you want to find me on social media, it's @tayorockson. Luckily, I've been the only one with that combination. There you go. So I've been able to use that consistently across my social media platforms. And then the the book, the podcast itself is called As Told By Nomads, but if you just got a website, you find it.

Fantastic. Well, we really thank you for being a fantastic guest today. We, we hope we'll be able to speak again. On the new Nomad. You've given us a lot to think about today. And I'm actually thinking about Roosevelt Island right now. Also, that So Andrew, we had a great conversation today. Maybe your your thoughts, your reflections, because I've got almost, I got a pile of notes here of things. I'm gonna follow up on Tayo's some of these great, great sayings, reactive world reflective world. I mean, it goes on. Fantastic stuff, your thoughts?

Andrew  

Yes, I was taking notes, take it writing down names and taking notes. It was a great time with Tayo today he is he's a man of wisdom of insights. And really anytime that I've that I listened to him, I come away thinking wow, I need to apply what I've heard. It moves me. You know, I reflect on my life experiences which of course we view things through our filters through our experiences, and then we have to reprogram from those experiences we shouldn't have programmed with. So it's a it's a it's a journey because I think okay, we sometimes we try to be a chameleon when we shouldn't be we try to be a be like something and follow someone else's path rather than our own. Those are some of my my reflections from this and I, I hate the fact that we had to end it but I know that many of you listeners are on to your next phone call you're on to your next thing you're on to taking care of your yourself and your family, which I hope you are but, but having Tayo on as a guest is just one of those privileges.

Allen  

Fantastic. Well, for our listeners out there, please do subscribe to The New Nomad podcast and leave a great review if you enjoy our discussions. You know, we'd like to think that The New Nomad is not just a podcast, it's a community of people ideas in spirit, taking advantage of this cross border lifestyle. We hope you share that adventure with others also, we'd love to see you again if you need to find out more about the new Nomad, you can reach us at thenewnoman.net are insurednomads.com. Thank you for listening today, and we look forward to speaking with you all again soon. Cheers.

Connecting and Communicating in a Cross-Cultural World with Tayo Rockson

About the Guest

Tayo Rockson